Happy Black Tuesday, Tor.com! I’m… not sure that’s a thing, officially, but since we’re clearly supposed to be shopping madly every dang-doodley day from Thanksgiving to Christmas anyway, I hardly see the difference. But in any case, we still have Rereading to do, so let’s get to it!
Today’s Redux post will cover Chapters 45 and 46 of The Shadow Rising, originally reread in this post.
All original posts are listed in The Wheel of Time Reread Index here, and all Redux posts will also be archived there as well. (The Wheel of Time Master Index, as always, is here, which has links to news, reviews, interviews, and all manner of information about the Wheel of Time in general on Tor.com.)
The Wheel of Time Reread is also available as an e-book series! Yay!
All Reread Redux posts will contain spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time series, so if you haven’t read, read at your own risk.
And now, the post!
Before we begin, a reminder that the format of the Reread Redux has changed: from now on I am only going to be commenting on chapters in which my reaction has changed significantly from before, based on the knowledge I had at the time.
Also, the scheduling shenanigans continue: owing to Thanksgiving week being way more insane than I had anticipated, my original plan to double up Reread posts obviously did not happen, and owing to mass bouts of family flu this week, it is highly unlikely that my next MRGN post is going to happen Thursday. SO, I decided to put the Reread post up this week, and push the MRGN post back to next week so I am still on an alternating schedule, and also so my sisters will not have to help me critique movies through a haze of snot and misery. I’m really sorry if this is terribly confusing, hopefully it will all be straightened out now.
Yep. And, Onward!
Chapter 45: The Tinker’s Sword
Redux Commentary
[What we missed: Perrin and Slayer play Homicidal Hide n’ Seek in the wolf dream, and Perrin finds out the Waygate is open and spewing Trollocs into the Two Rivers. He gets back to Emond’s Field and barely has time to be embarrassed by his new flag and title before he nearly dies of arrow wound. Alanna Heals him in the nick of time, and he tries to immediately leave to hero at Trollocs. Faile employs the worst attempt at reverse psychology ever, but it works, because Perrin, and he stays behind the front lines for the Shadow’s first assault on the village. In this chapter, the Tinkers and the Whitecloaks arrive in Emond’s Field, each bringing their own unique specimen of drama llama (i.e. Aram and Bornhald the Younger, respectively), neatly distracting Perrin from his horror that Faile totally thinks they’re going to be lord and lady round these parts.]
So, I spewed an awful lot of pseudo-philosophical political theory in the commentary to this chapter, and it is kind of hilarious. Does it count as vanity to find your own writing entertaining if you don’t actually remember writing it? A question for the ages, no doubt.
Though of course, the best part of it is not my own writing, but the Douglas Adams quote, which was then and still remains now one of my favorite humorous-yet-also-scarily-accurate commentaries on the vagaries of power:
The major problem — one of the major problems, for there are several — one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.
I’m just gonna… leave that there.
Well, except that I’m also going to add in the famous paraphrasing of Winston Churchill’s comment on the matter: “democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others.”
I spoke in the original commentary with what is probably a fairly typical contempt of the idea of any form of government being superior to a modern democracy. And it made perfect sense to me then. But having been subjected of late to a very rude awakening on the subject of just how many ways modern democracies can fail their people, I doubt I could have written now what I did then with anything like so blithe an assurance.
That said, unlike Faile, I still don’t think that feudalism is an acceptable alternative, for reasons I should hope would be obvious. And yet the inherent romance of the notion of the peerage – of lords and ladies and kings and queens and etc. – still holds sway, a lot more than I think most people are willing to admit. And she is not wrong in that people, even free people, long for a leader worthy of being followed. Or that they may fail to consider the long-term ramifications of giving that leader more power than he ought to be allotted, if those people wish to remain free.
Because sure, Perrin’s great, and did (and by all indications, will do) a great job ruling over the Two Rivers. Fabulous, congratulations. But what happens if his heir ain’t so great a person, or his grandkids, or their kids? Cause, you know, by that point it’s a little late to be all welll we THOUGHT we wanted to be vassals to a lord, but that was like three lords ago, aaaaand we’ve changed our minds now, sorry our bad, we’re just gonna go. Because historically speaking, the lord’s response is probably going to be along the lines of gee, you don’t say. Well, here, how about I just murder and oppress you a lot until you take it back because there’s nothing to say I can’t? Why’re you hitting yourself, huh? Quit hitting yourself!
And after that it just gets depressing. So yes, in the cold clear light of rational day, not a great idea. And yet, here we all are – me included – gettin’ all misty-eyed about Perrin earning himself a title and becoming the Village Autocrat.
People are, indeed, a very big problem.
Chapter 46: Veils
Redux Commentary
[In this chapter, Elayne and Nynaeve almost get kidnapped, unwittingly give Egeanin her midterm for Slavery Might Not Be Totally Awesome OMG 101, and spill their Compelled guts to Moghedien.]
And hahaha, in the commentary to this chapter I talk about the seemingly-rational- and-egalitarian-but-actually-totally-not hierarchy of the White Tower, with the deeply true observation that “It wouldn’t be a believable power hierarchy if it wasn’t at least slightly stupid.” Preach, Past Me.
What I left out, interestingly, is the stuff Thom tells the Supergirls in this chapter about Amathera, and how she is going to be invested as the Panarch even though “the Assembly” refused to choose her. Which sounds like a suspiciously democratic process for a mostly feudalish fantasy world. Earlier on in TSR, Elayne told Egwene a little about how Tanchico’s government works:
“The Panarch of Tanchico is the equal of the king in authority,” Elayne recited. “She is responsible for collecting taxes, customs and duties; he for spending them properly. She controls the Civil Watch and the courts, except for the High Court, which is the king’s. The army is his, of course, except for the Panarch’s Legion. She—”
So basically this seems like a somewhat wackadoo monarchy/democracy hybrid government, in which one leader is elected and the other (presumably) is not, which is a kind of interesting attempt at a system of checks and balances in theory, but in practice mostly sounds like a recipe for disaster. Especially when you have to assume these Assembly characters are drawn from the ranks of the aristocracy, and might even be hereditary roles themselves, which rather lightens the weight on the “democracy” side of the scale, dontcha know. But hey, it worked for the Romans!
…uh, you know. Until it didn’t. But hey, “at least slightly stupid”, checked off! Yay?
Right, and by now I’m not even sure what point I was making, or even if there was one in the first place. Other than “governments suck”, maybe. But I’m pretty sure we all knew that by now!
And, yeah. Stopping begins! Come on back in two weeks for more, y’hear? Good!
I would like to suggest that the worst failure mode of democracy is that someone gets elected who turns the system into something that isn’t a democracy. Which strongly implies all other government systems are worse than democracy.
“Being an absolute ruler today was not as simple as people thought. At least, it was not simple if your ambitions included being an absolute ruler tomorrow. There were subtleties. Oh, you could order men to smash down doors and drag people off the dungeons without trial, but too much of that sort of thing lacked style and anyway was bad for business, habit-forming and very, very dangerous for your health. A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot vote-yourself-rich system like democracy. At least they could tell the people he was their fault.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal
No, today is Giving Tuesday, the big day of donating to nonprofit organizations. A bit misplaced, since Grim Tuesday never gives anyone anything (#kttkjoke), but I won’t complain if my nonprofit employer benefits from it.
I’m still unclear on the Luc/Isam mechanics. But if Isam was listening in on that scene, I bet he was laughing at Dain calling the Two Rivers a “village of the Shadow.” You’ve never seen one of those, Dain.
The ideal system of government in the short term can differ from what is the best long term system. If you are only interested in the best system in the present and aren’t concerned about the future, in theory a benevolent dictatorship is the way to go (the key word there being benevolent). A dictator that acts with the best interests of all his or her subjects in mind can avoid the many pitfalls of democracy such as the tendency towards polarization, voting for bread and circuses, and the tyranny of the majority. Of course there are two big problems. First is how to ensure that the dictator and all future dictators remain benevolent. The second problem is that the first doesn’t matter because there aren’t now and never will be any perfectly benevolent dictators here on earth. In fantasy stories you can overcome this and have your main character make it work (assuming he doesn’t go insane from the pressure and the taint of the Dark One).
I’ve been saying this a lot lately, so I thought I’d just drop this in here: The United States is a republic, not a democracy. With that out of the way, is Perrin really stupid or did he use it as an excuse to fall back on? I mean, nobody is that dim…right?
@5 The United States is a Democratic Republic, in which power derives from citizens who elect, directly or indirectly, representatives to wield that power. There are multiple types of Democracies, and Democratic Republic is one such type. Another type is Direct Democracy, as in Athens, where citizens voted directly on legislation. Which we also have in limited form in the United States through the ballot initiative process.
@@.-@ There are plenty of benevolent dictators. The qualifier “perfectly” before benevolent is unnecessary. There is no “perfectly” anything on Earth, but a humanly benevolent dictator is plenty benevolent, and there are lots of people who could do that job. I could do it. My neighbor could do it. The problems are, as you said, ensuring the dictator remains benevolent, and ensuring the dictator’s successors are benevolent, yes. But in addition, two other problems. Selecting the dictator in the first place. As I said, there are plenty of nice people who could do the job with benevolence. But none of them can seize power. I can’t. My neighbor can’t. It would have to be given to us. Who’s going to do that? No one. A board of dictator selectors could perhaps do something similar, find the best guy for the job and give it to him/her. But then power rests with the selectors. It’s just a step away from democracy, or aristocracy, or oligarchy, depending on how the selectors are selected. A lottery could be interesting, and I think random people are actually more likely than not to be benevolent. But of course there are some bad people who could be selected that way. And that brings us to the second issue – those bad people will try to seize power. A dictator can’t just be benevolent, or these bad people will take over in a second. A dictator has to also be able to hold on to power against unscrupulous adversaries who will try to seize it. That quality might be close to inversely proportional to benevolence.
In today’s political climate, Leigh’s quote from Douglas Adams’ he Restaurant at the End of the Universe is still appropriate.
I think the reader may have been meant to know that the woman who Compelled Elayne and Nynaeve was Moghedian. I am not sure when the reader learns that a moghedian was small deadly spider in the Age of Legends. It may have been mentioned by another character or a glossary entry. If that information was revealed to the reader, then Moghedian’s identity was given away by her statement about the spider.
Moghedian’s final fate at the end of the Last Battle is one of my biggest pet peeves of AMoL. I grant you it was poetic that she gets collared. However, I was hoping that at least one of the Forsaken would have survived the Last Battle (Graendal and Mesaana and do not count: Graendal had her compulsion weave rebound on her and had no knowledge of her prior personality; Mesaana had the intellectual capacity of an infant). Going forward, the Aes Sedai and Asha’man would need to assist in capturing this Forsaken, along with other Dreadlords who were not killed or captured during the Last Battle. This could have been the new purpose of the Red Ajah. Oh well.
How stupid/arrogant is Moghedian. She knows there are Seanchan and Aes Sedai everywhere. She does not have an Aes Sedai face or Serpent Ring. This was arguably why she hid her channeling ability in the first place. How could she risk channeling a globe of light. She should have made sure nobody was around and traveled away.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
TANGENT WARNING!
Fallout: New Vegas has an interesting political setup for one of the Vault-Tec vaults (Vault 11). Each year a new Overseer is selected, and the Overseer has pretty much absolute power. The entire vault votes for who gets to be Overseer.
The twist is that at the end of his/her tenure as Overseer, the individual is killed.
So they have these huge political campaigns, trying to make sure that people vote for the OTHER guy. “Nathan is a terrible human being and smells bad. Vote Nathan for Overseer! We Hate Nate!”
This ends up creating voting blocs that nominate individuals from other blocs and causing intimidation and coercion. Eventually, (spoilers for a 10 year old game), a woman gets betrayed by the biggest bloc (she performs sexual favors for their higher-ups in exchange for them NOT nominating her husband, but they nominate him anyways). She then murders one of the higher-ups of the biggest bloc and admits it. Murder is an instant death sentence by becoming the next Overseer. She then declares a new system – the next Overseer after her will be selected at random by the vault computer, not by a vote – essentially breaking up the blocs.
The big bloc realizes they could actually get made Overseer now, and take up arms against the Overseer and the guards, and the entire vault collapses as they all kill each other.
At the end of it, there are 5 people left, and the computer chooses one of them. The other 4 decide no, this is stupid, and they will pay the penalty for not choosing an Overseer (the vault will kill all residents).
The vault computer then congratulates them, and opens the door to the outside world, freeing them. It was all just a big experiment to see if their innate ethical guidelines would overrule their fear of death. The vault dwellers were left in despair and killed themselves, all but one guy, who appears to have left the vault.
SO there could be worse systems of government, is what I’m saying.
I guess if I had to pick, the style of government I would prefer would be some type of government where the leader is chosen by a wise group of people (ha, I sound like Anakin) and once chosen had the ability to get things done, but there was also some good/trustworthy mechanism for removing them from power by the people themselves. I am not sure if that is even possible though – as the quote says, people are a problem :) Which is why, as appealing as libertarianism is to me at times, I feel like it would fall apart pretty quickly since when left to their own devices there’s always going to be a group of people who only seek their own interests.
But yes, I think we really like the idea of a benevolent lord – somebody we can trust to do the right thing, to provide protection, guidance, take care of all the things we can’t, etc. I am not sure that’s in and of itself a ‘bad’ thing but it’s so easily exploited.
AndrewHB @7
I’m pretty sure a lot of the Dreadlords would have been able to escape from the Last Battle. The lead up to it was the largest build up of Channelers since the Age of Legends, with unprecedented numbers of Aes Sedai and Asha’man on both sides. Reds would still have their job cut out for them.
Hiding Channeling ability is child’s play to a veteran of the Age of Legends. Reversed weaves hide both the ability and the result. Moghedien’s plan to hide among the masses was literally the best that can be used against a pair of overpowered, arrogant yet inexperienced upstarts. The ball of light was probably too much, but it could also be used to surprise her opponents, and at a distance other Channelers can just assume it’s a ter’angreal of some sort.
Polybius (writing in 150 bc or so) presents a theory of evolution of forms of government. Each form of government has its evil twin, and they generate an alternating cycle.
Thus, a kingship (the good form) devolves into a tyranny (bad form of kingship), at which point the nobility wrest some power from the king, and form an aristocracy (good form). This degenerates over time into an oligarchy, and which point the People wrest power and form a democracy. This continues until the People are unable to control their appetites, and allow demagogues to seduce them (ochlocracy). The ensuing chaos causes a thirst for order, and which point even a dictatorship starts to look good. The dictator passes rulership to his son, which starts the cycle anew.
Polybius considered the constitution of the Roman Republic to be sound, because it contained elements of all three good forms (consuls were like kings, senate was like the aristocracy, and the various assemblies were like a democracy). Of course, over the course of the hundred years after Polybius’ death, the Roman Republic sped straight through democracy to ochlocracy and into an effective dictatorship, thus proving precisely half of his theory.
@11 – That is really interesting and quite sobering. The more things change, the more they stay the same, I suppose.
I visited Rome a few years ago, and we visited the Roman Forum and Palatine Hill. It was quite sobering to stand on the area where the throne that ruled the entire Roman Empire had once been. It’s now a grassy field full of weeds/wild flowers with just a few old stones marking its place. Which I suppose just goes to show you can’t put too much faith in any human structures. (Full disclosure, we also had spiritual reasons for being in Rome, and so that in some ways was an interesting counterpoint. Which is not to say I think we should all just sit back and watch the world burn!)
JonathanLevy, what Lisamarie said above in the first two sentences. It’s spookily (is that a word?) similar in many ways with what’s happening nowadays.
13. ValMar
I agree. Seems to me that we’re halfway between the Democracy and Ochlocracy stages. It’s hard to imagine how the denouement might go, or how long it will take to get there. The Roman example only goes so far.
12. Lisamarie
A few years ago I dragged my wife to see every stone in Rome (that’s how she tells it, at least). I also got that shiver when visiting the ruins of sparta several years earlier. Empty fields, a few olive trees, and the occasional pile of rubble.
Jonathan Levy @@@@@ 14
Yes, whilst the Roman example is interesting it’s not too useful for direct comparison for today. For one thing, today’s move towards Ochlocracy in various democracies is being “helped” by a state which hasn’t moved past Tyranny for the last 5-6 centuries (for more than a handful of years at a time). E.g. the recent presidential elections in the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, USA, and the coming ones in France, the usual mess in Italy…
Basically, the problem with Polybius’ theory is that it reads more like a manual. The fact that it was written two millennia ago and is still relevant implies that this process is hardwired in human society. One can only hope that the prevalence the worse forms of government have enjoyed so for in human history will be reduced in the future and we won’t wipe ourselves out in the mean time and leave empty fields, piles of rubble, and a few craters…
If I’m correct, this is the chapter with the issue where Moghedien asks the girls if they have any ter’angreal in their pouches or in their room, and Elayne (or Nynaeve) omits talking about the dream ring she keeps around her neck. The issue was that this ignored the two dream ter’angreal they had recouped in Tear and carried around until they surrendered them in Salidar. I had submitted this in the Wheel of Time FAQ, and Leigh had mentioned it in the original re-read.
I was very surprised on my last re-read, which I did with the eBooks, that this mis-step had been corrected! Now Elayne (or Nynaeve, it’s been too long) also thinks of these two ter’angreal, thinking of how they were sewn in a hidden pocket on the inside of their dress, because they weren’t foolish enough to leave them unattended.
In anyway, since this was my main contribution to the FAQ, I was quite amused that it ended up being fixed many versions later.
It is interesting that the axe flickers into the hammer like that, both because we never see such malleability again and because it did seem like Perrin had chosen the axe. Although the flickering could suggest that Perrin needs both or that both have merit, I think it also simply reflects the fact Perrin is undecided, whatever he thought to the contrary, and that while necessity dictates he use the axe right now, his subconscious knows he’ll have to revisit this later. But yes, I think the ambiguity was deliberate on Jordan’s part.
The fact you can’t enter a Waygate from TAR makes sense, since the world of the Ways is shifted out of time and space from the real world–TAR may also be its own world, but it’s still a reflection of the real world, not another dimension like the Ways. Good thing too; I don’t even want to think about what could happen if Machin Shin could escape into TAR…
Little does Perrin know there are certainly other Malkieri left!
Slayer’s comment about Fain’s luck: considering his connection to Shadar Logoth, I wonder if this is supposed to be another hint as to the source of Mat’s luck?
More ta’veren work: although Raen’s devotion to the Way of the Leaf is stronger, such is Perrin’s power he still considers going to Emond’s Field for safety (twice!), and does go there eventually.
So many great Perrin/Faile moments in these chapters…her teasing him about being pretty when sulking, her stumbling when he mentions she doesn’t need to dance the sa’sara for him because his heart is already hers (mirroring Gaul’s stumble at Maiden’s Kiss and Chiad), her ‘honeyed’ routine to get Perrin to stay on his horse and not ride off to the Waygate, and of course the classic fall down the stairs where Marin catches them. I still think this is one of the funniest moments in the entire series, and I love that Rand thinks so too when he’s told about it later (and that Sanderson revisited it in AMoL).
Yup Perrin, you talk to Verin like she’s just any village woman, but you’re still just some guy. (Though really, she looks like one and to some degree acts like one, and considering how much she tries to cultivate relationships with people outside the Tower, I think she actually approves of this and hasn’t bought into the Aes Sedai mystique.) Which ties into Leigh’s original discussion of Perrin’s Lordening and whether it’s all Verin, Alanna, and Faile (and also Tam and Abell), or if it’s also Perrin himself. And I think I agree with the consensus that it’s both, and that therefore the others’ part in it is not undermining the ultimate result. Because as much as they give him good advice (and the simple fact they’re seen and heard giving it influences how the Two Rivers folk react to Perrin), in the end it wouldn’t matter if a) he didn’t follow it b) he didn’t have good common sense himself (most of the time) and c) he wasn’t plain inspiring just by how much he clearly cares and does all he can to help and protect his people. It’s these things that make him a good leader; the rest is either window dressing or things that get the ball rolling/add the right touches.
Side note: Alanna was the one who told the villagers about wolves. I am assuming this is because of the common White Tower knowledge about them, since she never gives any indication she knows about Perrin’s special relationship with wolves. Verin does though. Sneaky Verin!
Also, all things considered, it’s a shame we never did get into Alanna’s head, ever.
The bit with Perrin doubting Luc is less, I think, about trying to misdirect us or make us think he’s a red herring and more likely clues as to his unusual nature (i.e. despite messing around with the Whitecloaks the previous day he could also have sent the Shadowspawn due to his TAR abilities). But I do also love that Luc too is bitter about his lost status (even if he could never have been king, as Perrin points out without realizing it). As Leigh said, these villains and their literal entitlement issues, indeed!
Love the part where Perrin tells the boys what adventures are really like. Such resonance with Rand’s original thoughts in TEotW, way back when. And yes…as much as he gets a lot of remonstrating from the readers, Perrin’s “emo-ness” really is justified most of the time, and this bit here with all the wailing for dead loves ones drives that home. Not only does Perrin prove what a good man he is by how he blames himself for their deaths, but in a painful way it kind of his fault; they may have chosen to come and knew the risks, but they probably still didn’t see things as dangerous as Perrin knew they really were. And they never would have had the opportunity to go into battle if not for Perrin’s decision to go and face the Shadowspawn (and his ta’veren effect).
Perrin schooling Cenn and Daise re: the Tinkers was awesome. And since it was brought up in previous chapters and again here too, I have to agree with Faile’s point: that everyone, even free men like the Two Rivers folk, even the Tuatha’an, have a need to belong and to believe in something larger than themselves. Without getting into a quagmire, let’s just say that this tendency of people to look to leaders to save them and to hope for good ones to take care of them (TV Tropes calls it Holding Out For a Hero) is still alive and well today, and when you combine that with nationalism…it’s easy to understand, and it can be a powerful force for good when aimed the right way by a noble leader like Perrin. But I trust I don’t need to say how easy it is for it all to go wrong with a bad leader, and that therefore Leigh’s point about what if Perrin’s descendants aren’t as good as he is is well taken.
I don’t think I realized before the significance of Perrin telling Ila to leave Aram alone after he spoke of losing his mother, and that if he’d fought he could have saved her; of course Perrin would react to that! Also, as if we needed any more prophetic portentousness, Aram’s sword has a wolfshead pommel. Considering what Aram becomes under Masema’s influence, I can’t help thinking he’s the one who had more to fear from a wolven nature than Perrin. Still…let me reiterate again, as much as he could be annoying, and caused trouble later, I still feel sorry for Aram and I think the reason Jordan included him (aside from paralleling what Rand learned about the Aiel’s past, and to contrast what happens when it is revealed to them at Alcair Dal) is to warn Perrin about the dangers of going too far into violence, and to not providing people who need it a good leader to believe in and follow. Also, I understand why she was lashing out, but I still had to put a mark against Ila for blaming Perrin for this–he didn’t make the Trollocs come, or make Aram choose to fight.
Quick side note: while obviously Perrin met Dain before, briefly, back in Baerlon, I wonder if he also thought he looked familiar because he recognized Geofram in his features. Anyway, Perrin was very Aes Sedai-like indeed in how he got Dain’s cooperation. I also have to note that Dain calls the Seanchan a White Tower lie, when Byar knows damn well they were real because he saw them with Geofram–but of course he’d never admit that. Also later, by the time both of them are with Galad, they both know the Seanchan are real thanks to the fall of Amador and Valda/Asunawa joining them, but Dain conveniently never mentions his accusation here. Ugh, I hate how these sorts always have ways of twisting logic and even their own words to suit themselves.
Luc’s commentary about “taking an enemy into your bosom” may be a huge red sign to Perrin about him being a bad guy, but it’s also an interesting commentary on what may have happened with him and Isam.
I wonder how much more these books, and the original re-read commentary, are going to keep being relevant, topical, and eerily prescient of things happening now…
And back to Tanchico. Elayne’s private suspicions about Faile are fun, especially since she proves once again that she is more aware and astute than most of the other women re: her, including Moiraine. But it also implies she doesn’t realize yet at this point that Faile is royalty. Could she not have learned her last name? Or is not aware that the Basheres are related to Tenobia? (I suppose Borderlander lineage wouldn’t be a big focus of a Daughter-Heir’s education.)
Nynaeve and Elayne’s disagreement about Juilin: classic!
Moghedien: This is the first real exposure to Compulsion we get, since we don’t know at this point what exactly is up with Rahvin and Morgase and yeah…still pretty damn horrible. But I love that when not used the way Graendal uses it, and when the person is strong-willed and clever, you can get around it and think your way past it. (I always wonder about the dream ter’angreal which Jordan originally forgot to mention; had he honestly forgotten the girls had them, or did he always intend them to have them in this scene and just forgot? I am afraid it’s probably the former, but the revision he made makes sense and is quite elegant too.) Otherwise this is an oddly fun scene of monologuing considering how much Moghedien reveals. We didn’t really need the confirmation about Ishamael, but Moggy’s comments about him are rather hilarious considering how she ends up under his thumb as Moridin later. Her comment regarding Lews Therin is very telling, after what almost happens to Rand in TGS and what he remembers in AMoL, after being integrated. As for her identity, we actually didn’t have any clue at this point: Birgitte doesn’t mention Moghedien’s name or its meaning until she talks to Nynaeve in the Panarch’s museum. But she gives great clues in retrospect.
But yeah: Nynaeve and her braid pulling under Compulsion was awesome, and I was eagerly awaiting when she’d break free, remember, and lay the smackdown on her for sure.
@1 noblehunter: Well said.
@3 AeronaGreenjoy: Oooo, good point re: Dain, Isam, and the Town.
@7 AndrewHB: As I stated above, Birgitte defines a moghedien to Nynaeve later, after this scene. I don’t think there was a glossary entry before this. You have a good point about no Forsaken being left to bring to justice, but I am pretty sure there are plenty of Dreadlords left, both Asha’man and Black Ajah. Plus Shadowspawn to hunt down.
Also, alreadymad @10 is quite right regarding inverting/reversing. I am guessing the reason Moghedien gets caught after the Last Battle but not here is because she was still being careful here; at that point she got cocky/overconfident, was in a hurry to get out of there, and didn’t think anyone was around to sense her. More fool her.
Hunting down the remaining Dreadlords would be the Green Ajah. I’m sure everybody would be pitching in, especially considering the losses, but Alanna specifically says (after Egwene’s trip through the Acceptatron in tGH) that countering the Dreadlords was specificallytheir bag.
I always thought that the new purpose for the Red Ajah would be recruiting and liasing to fulfill Egwene’s “affiliated with the Tower” decree. They’d already have the experience dealing with rogue channelers and recruiting eyes-and-ears who can recognize the signs of someone first channeling. They’d be perfect and it’d go a long way to giving the Reds a place in the reunited Tower to help smooth over some of the bad blood from the split.
@19 I believe the Green Ajah is meant to counter Dreadlords in Battle (Battle Ajah) but I definitely believe the Red would be better suited to hunting them down after the LB. Green Ajah (we assume) learn weaves of destruction. Red Ajah (we’ve seen) learn weaves of capture and denying a channeler the ability to channel.
Tanchico isn’t a hybrid at all – it’s noted in the chapter where everyone is in masks that “the only true power the Assembly has is to choose the king and the Panarch.” So both heads of state are elected… It’s just that once elected, they can’t be removed.
Mercedes Lackey has the best answer to ensuring a responsible ruling line – a hereditary head of state that has to be ratified by a superior being who can judge your character. “Bad dude? Yeah, let’s skip you and go with your second cousin. He’ll make a much better king.”